Episode 203 The Pull of the Heart Strings

In this episode of The Real Enneagram, we delve into the profound topic of the heart's intelligence and its role in awakening compassion within us. We explore how our heartstrings serve as a moral compass, guiding us toward empathy and understanding, especially in today's challenging world.

Joe shares a poignant personal story from his childhood that illustrates the moment he first became aware of his heart's guidance, emphasizing the importance of listening to our hearts. We discuss the historical origins of the term "heartstrings" and how it has evolved to represent the emotional connections we feel.

Scott reflects on his journey of reconnecting with his heart after struggling with anxiety and depression, highlighting how an open heart can serve as a portal to sensitivity and connection with others. We emphasize the significance of being present and vulnerable in our relationships, as true connection requires mutual respect and empathy.

Throughout our conversation, we touch on the importance of seeing and acknowledging the humanity in others, especially in a world where many feel unseen. We conclude with an inquiry for our listeners to reflect on: "When your heartstrings are pulled, what truth about love or justice is your heart trying to reveal to you?"

Join us as we explore the depths of the heart's wisdom and the transformative power of compassion in our lives. Thank you for listening!

To learn more about the Institute for Conscious Being, visit: theicb.info

Transcript

Scott:
You are now listening to The Real Enneagram, a podcast by the Institute for Conscious Being. To learn more about the Institute and its offerings, visit theicb.info. That's T-H-E I-C-B dot I-N-F-O.

Nanette: Well, welcome back to The Real Enneagram, a podcast brought to you by the Institute for Conscious Being. I'm Nanette Mudiam, and I'm here with Dr. Joseph Howell and Scott Smith. Hey, guys.

Joe: Hey, Nanette. Hello, Nanette.

Nanette: I'm looking really forward to having this conversation today with both of you. We're going to be talking about the pull of the heart strings. And I love this topic of conversation, because we're going to talk today about the heart's intelligence, and how it can awaken compassion in us, and helps to guide our moral life. And You know, as an ego type nine, I integrate to the heart center of intelligence. And I always find that, you know, this is where my soul really feels at home. And, and I think in general, whether you integrate to the heart, or whether you are in the heart center of intelligence, that we need more heart in the world. We need the compassion that the heart stirs in all of us, especially in times that we find ourselves in right now. So I'm looking forward to having this conversation. So, you know, Joe, in your recent reflections on the heart strings, you did a whole reflections in our daily emails that get sent out. You, I am quoting you in saying this, you say, our heartstrings are part of our moral compass because we trust the heart's intuitive knowing. When I hear that, it makes me think about this. There are so many heart sayings. We use the word heart so much, but it made me think about that we tell people to follow your heart, that there is an intuition in the heart that is different from that gut feeling. It's different from our minds, rational thinking, but there's something in our heart that sometimes just knows what's the right thing to do. Can you talk to us about that and maybe talk to us about the history of this word heartstrings as you talked about in the reflections?

Joe: Sure, I'd be glad to. I go back in memory to when I was about, oh, I'd say eight or nine. And my father had given my brother Trevor and me some BB guns. They weren't rifles, they were like pistols. And you put the BBs in and then you shoot them. And we were given targets to see how good of a shot we were. But like little boys, we begin to go out into the backyard and find bugs to shoot. and then start, you know, aiming at birds and then larger life, not dogs, but I remember because my father led us to believe that if you were a good marksman, you would be a good hunter, and if you were a good hunter, you would be more of a man, that kind of thing. So I distinctly remember one day, I was at the fence at the bottom of our yard, and I saw a squirrel sitting on a limb. And I aimed my pistol right at the squirrel. And the BB went right into the squirrel's fur, but it bounced back. And the squirrel just sat there looking at me. And I remember feeling relieved that The BB bounced back because my heart told me what I was doing for me was not right. My heart string pulled and said, this is not you. This is not how you feel. This is not what you want. It's not good for you to make anything hurt or to kill anything. And that was, I think, I mean, I'm sure things happened before that, but in my memory, that's the first time I really remember becoming conscious of my heart and what it was telling me. Because I wouldn't have felt relief if I weren't listening to my heart. I would feel disappointment that I didn't kill the squirrel. So there's a little story about heartstrings right there.

Nanette: So you landed at the end of this. The squirrel did live. Yes.

Joe: The squirrel thrived and looked down at me like you poor pitiful human being. I survived and look at you now. You're all filled with shame.

Nanette: A small little animal can invoke so much. That's funny. Okay. Well, Ted, so Joe, tell us about heartstrings and where this word comes from.

Joe: Well, I believe in the reflection, Nanette, I go into the origin of it. It really came from early like in the 1500s when they started delving into cadavers and trying to understand the muscular structure and the organs. And they saw the tissue around the heart and they called it heart strings because it was similar to some of the tissue like in the hamstrings. And so they called them heartstrings. And then it morphed into being more of an emotional connotation with heartstrings being some things that can get pulled to pull certain emotions from us out of the heart. Yeah.

Nanette: So it is interesting that you said that it pulls certain emotions because what we find that naturally happens is that The heart can be moved with empathy in such a way that we might find ourselves crying or moved with emotions. I always think about when we say, what moves your heart? Or what are the things that stir emotion in you? And when we know that, we know that we've hit on the heart strings. And a lot of times that sometimes is somebody who's vulnerable. It's a vulnerable human or a vulnerable animal that sparks maybe pity or empathy or compassion in our hearts and hopefully moves us to take action on behalf of that person. And so talk to us about your experiences with that, Joe.

Joe: Well, I think all of us in the human species have been gifted with a certain amount of empathy. the mother-child bond, for example. How would we survive without the mother's built-in empathy? And I'm not, I'm talking about not just mothers, but caretakers. The caretakers who are infused with this very protective and very empathic feeling toward their helpless offspring And they, deep in the human hardwiring, is this survival instinct to protect and nurture the young. You can't just protect the young. They still die, even if they've got a good bassinet or baby basket, they will die without the touch of love. They will begin to have malnutrition, failure to thrive. And the scientific studies show that many children who are in institutions, for example, have fallen into that without the hugs and loves and caresses to let them know they're needed, wanted, and cherished. So that is built in to the human species, as is the tribal instinct for protecting one's family and one's tribe, anticipating their needs, celebrating with them when joyous things happen, crying with them when there are losses and deaths. And so the heartstrings are interwoven, I find, in the human experience.

Nanette: There are some heartstrings that seem to be relatively universal. Their instincts show exactly like most of us feel moved when we see a baby. We just do. It's hardwired in us to protect the vulnerable. And children, luckily, incite that in us because that has ensured our survival because we've all been babies and children. So there is this intuitive wisdom that can be unique to our hearts in that maybe we are passionate about different things. For somebody, it might be, I don't know, bird watching or whale watching or somebody, it's the protection of the environment or an injustice that moves their heart politically. I know for me, I work with people who lack access to healthcare and that is a very passionate issue for me. But somehow, sometimes the heart knows things that your mind can't always explain, that you have some intuition about things. So can we talk, does that make you guys think of things that you are passionate about uniquely? Scott, got any passions that you would like to share?

Scott: I, you know, I came to the Enneagram and also to embodiment work at about the same time about six years ago after like a long struggle with anxiety and depression. I think I've talked about that previously, so I won't rehash the details of it, but getting into that in part, I mean, it was primarily a process of getting out of my head. and connecting with my bodily intelligence and through that my soul intelligence. But I also experienced it as a process of my heart opening.

Scott: And I've personally come to understand that as it's as if my heart is the portal of my sensitivity.

Scott: as if there's a horizontal axis between my heart and the rest of the world and my heart is the connection to that. I experienced that in tandem with sort of a vertical axis of whether I'm centered in my head and I'm contracted there or if I'm centered down in my body and my gut and my pelvic bowl. And I find that an expansive place. So that vertical axis for me is related to how grounded I am. So I've noticed my heart's much more open than it used to be. And for me, that is a slow process of it opening or closing. Meanwhile, where I am on that vertical axis, whether I'm more in my head or in my body, That can be a quick thing. Triggers can trampoline me up out of my body into my head. And then it's like my heart sensitivity is no longer grounded and now it's reactive. So in a way, grounding exercises become more and more important for me, the more open my heart is. So that sensitivity can remain grounded. But yeah, before I got into all of this, I really lived in my head, like I was numb to the sensitivities of my heart and my body. And like all my life, people would tell you, Scott, find what you're passionate about. Find what you're passionate about and follow your passion. And I never understood that living in my head. I thought passion was something to figure out. But through this long process of inquiry through the Enneagram and resensitizing through embodiment, I've learned passion is something you feel. And I feel that through the heart. And when I'm grounded in my body, I can integrate that. I mean, information, it is information coming in through the heart, but it's not abstract or conceptual information, it is sensational, emotional information. So I've learned, I have a bit of a passion for doing this technology for the Institute. I really, I get frustrated sometimes when it doesn't work. But at the end of the day, I just, I really enjoy it. And it, it nourishes me in a way. But yeah, it used to be I wouldn't have had the capacity to feel that or, or understand it. I feel like I got off on a bit of a tangent there, but I hope I in some way reacted to your question.

Nanette: Yeah, no, that's actually exactly what I think we are looking for. It's not a tangent. It might just have been passion that showed up, you know, to speak. So thank you, Scott. It's a beautiful thing to see that. And I love that you describe it as vertical because so much of us reconnecting to our hearts is so often about relationships. It's about others. And we can't be in our heart space without wanting, I think, to connect to other people. And it takes a community. And that's that unity that we find. even in ICB, the work that we do, that it is a shared passion, and that it really comes best through our relationships.

Joe: Joe, what are your thoughts on this? Thank you, Scott. That was such a down-to-earth, current example. I love the way you said, the open heart. I like that terminology because so often in psychology, I meet people who come for help, but whose hearts are closed. And sometimes for good reason, because they've been hurt, traumatized, damaged. And the open heart takes courage. You know, the word courage comes from the French word, coeur, which means heart. And the courage of the heart to be open is essential if we're going to have true relationship with other people. Because true relationship involves vulnerability on both sides. If not, it is not an equal relationship. It is a master and slave or a boss and employee or somebody who is thinking they're better than somebody else or worse than somebody else. So the vulnerable heart The open heart, I believe, takes a lot of courage. And I would love to hear what you think about that, Scott.

Scott: I very much agree with that, Joe.

Scott: I mean, for one, it makes me think about presence, about being present to each other. And I think there's an equivalency between being present to someone and being receptive to them. And it is your heart through which you receive them. And yeah, that is, that does require vulnerability. And it requires an attitude of mutual respect. And it requires feeling the other person. Conversely, in a hierarchical relationship, like you described, you know, master, servant, boss, employee, Those are predefined roles, like they're predetermined, top down. And they don't require feeling like, why do I need to feel you out if I know, you know, this is your role, and this is my role, right? And, you know, very wise person once said, the greatest gift that you can give to another person is just to be present to them. And that requires an open heart. And to me, it requires a capacity for groundedness and a capacity to notice when you are becoming ungrounded and reactive so that you can continue to be present to each other so that it can be the simple, simple situation of two human beings interacting with each other and feeling together. Interacting with the reality of the other person as opposed to just your idea of them or just you know Navigating or unconscious triggers triggering each other endlessly You know, I think that that can be kind of a liability of the vulnerability the heart can be very open but if that sensitivity doesn't have a complementary groundedness then Then it can become triggering fighting adversarial You can't be too sensitive, I don't think. Like we'll talk about somebody being too sensitive, but I think really the trouble is a lack of groundedness to go with that sensitivity to keep it from being reactive.

Scott: But yeah.

Nanette: You know, this presence that you're talking about, Scott, it makes me think about, I have had the privilege of traveling with Joe and his wife, Lark, on a few occasions overseas. I'm always amazed that wherever Joe goes, that he starts to engage with perfect strangers. He's present with people in a way to take such a genuine interest in people. And he pulls on their heartstrings in a very intuitive way. And maybe that is really, you know, at home in Joe's life because of his work and obviously his own passions. But it makes me think that I appreciate the idea that You know, we need to be sensitive, but on just a practical level, I think sometimes you just have to slow down and take an interest in somebody. in order and when you do, very often you can have these profound connections because I think one of the things that we're realizing in the world is that people just want to be seen. They want someone to be interested in their story and to know them. you know, for someone to hear their story. Honestly, it makes me a little sad because to be honest, I went to a conference this week and during this, the days leading up to it, I was really, really busy. And I had done a lot of talking. And I'm a kind of an introvert by nature. And I then I had to go to this conference. And so I go to the conference, I don't know really too many people at the conference. And honestly, I don't try to know anyone while I'm at the conference. And during the lunch break, I went outside to just get some sunshine. And I realized that I was near a bunch of nursing students, and I have a nursing degree. And I thought, I know what these kids feel like, because I mean, it makes an impression, even though it was 20 years ago. And I started to engage with them. And I'm going to be honest, I'm going to be really honest, I didn't. I just thought, nah, it's just, you know, they're all they're talking and I'm an old lady, you know, they're not going to be interested in what I have to say. But about 10 minutes later, a guy who was the last session speaker came out and he was very engaging, a bit Joe like, and he immediately went straight into the middle of their crowd to sit down. And he said, so you're in your last semester of nursing school. And he started just chatting with them. And I thought, oh, man, he's doing exactly what I thought about doing just a minute ago. And it was it was a little bit of a chastisement for me. But it was a reminder that people are looking to tell their stories because they didn't care that he was honestly he was older than me. But he took an interest in them. And they responded to his interest, and he pulled on their heartstrings. And I think it's a reminder that it's not a difficult thing for any of us to do. It's just, are we willing to be present, to get outside of ourselves? And when I say that, I mean myself. And is it worth it? And I think you think, nah, it's not, because I'm never going to see these students again. But you never know. And it might just make somebody's day a little more livable today. So that might mean talking to somebody in the grocery store line, or engaging with people in a meeting, or taking your lunch break to maybe ask a stranger a question. It's something I think is pulling on my own heartstrings and just reminding me that it really is important that we see other people.

Joe: I can't believe that we're in a world where we're killing not only other adults, but we're killing children. That's how unseen that we are.

Joe: And that's just the extreme.

Nanette: Yes. And by that, you mean, maybe wars in Gaza or in Ukraine or wars that we just don't even know about that wars in general still go on. And in 2025, when we should all know that killing accomplishes nothing, there are no winners and wars, only losers.

Joe: But if those children were seen, and those adults were seen as the souls they are, then it would probably move hearts. But as long as they're unseen and dehumanized and are thought of as just the others who need to be eliminated, then there's absolutely no moral thought of empathy. They are disposable.

Nanette: It reminds me of the idea that it's easy to hate groups of people. It's very difficult to hate an individual. Yeah. you know, that when we kind of smear campaigns someone and put them in a group of others or to put a label on them to dehumanize them, but when we sit with somebody, it's why traveling is so important because if you can actually see the humanity of the other, quote unquote, then you start to realize you have more in common than not. You realize that everybody's home is important, that everybody's food is important, that everybody's culture and religion is important because they're human. So I think this is a beautiful and wonderful topic of conversation. I'm looking forward to continuing it for next week. So as we have begun to wrap up our podcast series, recently, we will close with an inquiry. And this is something that we would encourage you maybe to do with Maybe somebody else who is interested in this type of work, you can practice the inquiry as a repeated question over a course of set time, maybe 10 minutes. or you can journal the answers to this. But our inquiry for today's podcast is, when your heart strings are pulled, what truth about love or justice is your heart trying to reveal to you? Thanks so much, guys. I appreciate the conversation today.

Scott: Thank you for listening to The Real Enneagram, a podcast by the Institute for Conscious Being. To learn more about the Institute and its offerings, visit theicb.info. That's T-H-E I-C-B dot I-N-F-O. The music for today's podcast was composed and performed by ICB faculty member Drexel Rayford.

Nanette: Thanks for listening today. We hope you liked what you heard. If you did, please subscribe, leave a review, and share this with your friends and family.